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Israel v Hamas Debate

Entry 155, on 2023-10-20 at 11:32:02

The latest conflict in Gaza is a recent controversy, which seems to have created some quite extreme views on both sides. I am primarily on the side of Israel, although I think they could have done some things better, but there are plenty of people on the other side too.

Opponent Shame on Israel America and the UK governments, where are their morels, its clearly so unfair, like David and Goliath war, so unfair, enough is enough, America is putting itself and other countries in danger because of their decision.

So the main claim here seems to be that Israel is acting like a bully by declaring war on a less powerful enemy, Hamas. But what is Israel supposed to do? Just ignore a terrorist attack and wait for it to happen again?

Me If I remember correctly David defeated Goliath. Not going to happen this time. Also David attacked Goliath first this time, what's Goliath supposed to do?

Supporter Well said.

Opponent Pretty sure the Palestine people have been attacked for the last 75 years. Do they have the right to defend themselves. It genocide!

But they haven't been. Israel withdrew from Gaza many years ago and it has been run by Hamas since they were "elected" (there has never been another election since). The only "attacks" Israel has engaged in since then is in retaliation for rocket attacks against them.

Me I don't think they have been the victims of a deliberate act of terror.

Opponent Yeah look it up. Before this attack 40 kids and 200 odd Palestinians have been killed just this year. Arresting kids at young ages and thrown in to littles cages for years sometimes. There's always 2 sides to a story, and the story been told half is lies which makes it hard to tells who's telling the truth. Sad to see it unfold like it is for both sides involved.

There have been civilian deaths in Gaza, but only because Israel has tried to eliminate the rocket sites there. I'm fairly sure the "kids in cages" thing is false.

Opponent The norm for past 75 years has been loss of Palestinian lives. The world only remembered this conflict again because non Palestinians lost their live. The Oct 7 was a symptom not the cause

The terrorist attacks on October 7 were because Hamas wanted to deliberately provoke Israel into violence, and it worked. In some ways Israel did fall for that ploy, but I don't think they had much choice.

Opponent Israel has just bombed the 3rd oldest church in the world, in Gaza.

Me Yes, I agree that Israel's actions are far from perfect, but I think they are the clear winners in a competition for the higher moral standard.

Opponent We will see when they are done for war crimes!

Me Yes, let's wait and see. Hard to see how they could be worse than a bunch of murderous terrorists.

Opponent Both sides have them!

No, they don't. Terrorism has a specific meaning, and declaring war on an enemy who attacked you first is not an act of terrorism, especially when Israel made a specific effort to give civilians a chance to escape before they invaded Gaza.

Me I don't think the behaviour of the two sides are morally equivalent. I think the Israelis are qualitatively more moral. And according to accepted definitions, only Hamas are terrorists.

Opponent What ever Owen. If that makes you sleep Better good on you.

Opponent Why did you delete your other comment. Did it make you sound vulgar?

Me I haven't deleted any comments. What did you think I said?

Me Nothing to do with sleep. Just trying to look at the facts and reach a rational conclusion.

The problem here is that because there are some causes for blame on both sides, many people assume the two sides are equally good or bad. Additionally, because Palestine (or Hamas) is seen as the "little guy" (David) versus the might of Israel (Goliath) many people want to support the underdog, even when they are the immediate cause of this war. This is a false equivalency, and the two sides are not morally equal.